Dull looking thumbnails???

[southbayphoto]

Hey all,

I was hoping you all could help me.  I'm running version 1.4.13 (stable) on my site currently.  I've had it up for quite some time, but haven't loaded anything new to the site in a long time.  Well, I finally decided that I needed to upload some of my new photography files.  Well, the problem is, the thumbnails that are created by Coppermine for the newly uploaded files look dull.  It almost seems like they are either less saturated or something.  Is this a problem anyone else has experienced?

My other shots (that were previously uploaded on the site) were modified/saved in Photoshop CS3 prior to upload.  However, I used Lightroom 2 for these latest shots.  They look fine on my computer and they look fine if you click on the thumbnail and view the large version of the photo.  However, if you look at the page with the thumbnails, the photos look like crap.  However, on my other galleries (the originally uploaded ones), the thumbnails look just fine and look like the larger version of the files. 

The only thing I can see that's different is that I used Adobe Lightroom 2 to modify/adjust the files.  Is there a problem with Coppermine recognizing Adobe Lightroom 2 settings or something?  I've been using the color space of ProPhoto RGB.  So, I thought maybe that did it.  So, I tried one photo and saved it as regular sRGB and uploaded it and it still did the same thing.  Both, again, were saved through Lightroom 2.

I went through the Admin settings section of Coppermine, but didn't see any type of special settings for the thumbnails quality.  I do have it set at 100%, so that's not it.

Any ideas of what is causing this and how to fix it?  If it was me looking at the site, I would actually skip over clicking on the photos because the thumbnails look so much like crap.  People won't think to click on the thumbnail to see the nicely colored photo that actually shows up on the large version.  :-(

Any help would be truly appreciated.

Regards,
Mat

[Joachim Müller]

I'm running version 1.4.13 (stable) on my site currently.

That's an incredibly bad idea - most recent stable release currently is cpg1.4.26, so you're running 13 versions behind. 13 versions of security-related fixes. Running such an ancient, unpatched version is like inviting all script kiddies to come and play on your server. You need to upgrade before doing anything else.

I've been using the color space of ProPhoto RGB.

The image libraries that coppermine is using can only cope with regular sRGB/RGB color space. I have no idea what "ProPhoto RGB color space" is.

I do have it set at 100%, so that's not it.

That's the JPEG compression setting. 100% means "uncompressed", which is just a waste of resources imo.

Any ideas of what is causing this and how to fix it?

Picking an improper image library can cause this as well as some other factors. As we're out of crystal balls we'll have to do this the old-fashioned way by looking at it . Therefore, you need to provide a link to your gallery. In fact, that's mandatory for all your postings on this forum, as per board rules, to which you agreed when you signed up. Everything else means just wasting our time.

[southbayphoto]

My apologize on forgetting the link.  :-(

I did upgrade, right after I sent the post.  So, I'm now at cpg1.4.26.  So, I'm good to go there.

ProPhoto RGB is one of the latest working color spaces for photographs.  It's used by Adobe Lightroom 2.  It's like sRGB or AdobeRGB, but with a larger color gamut.

Here is the link to one of my photos.  You can see the picture looks nice and vibrant, however, the thumbnail underneath (for the same photo) looks drab. 

http://www.southbayphoto.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=62&pos=2

I found out by doing some playing around in Photoshop CS3, that it appears the thumbnails only show in sRGB color space.  Thus, it takes most of the color out of the photo when showing it.  However, apparently when Coppermine shows the full sized image, it allows it to show the ProPhoto RGB or at least the Adobe RGB version of the image because the vibrant colors show.

Is there any way to have the thumbnails use the same color space that the images use when they are being built/created?  I'm guessing that when Coppermine creates the thumbnails, it's either ignoring or stripping the color space out and replacing it with sRGB, thus making the image look drab.

Again, sorry for leaving out the link and wasn't trying to waste anyone's time.

Regards,
Mat

[chzuqi]

One was made by Photoshop,another was your thumbnail.
They look the same.

[Joachim Müller]

ProPhoto RGB is one of the latest working color spaces for photographs.  It's used by Adobe Lightroom 2.  It's like sRGB or AdobeRGB, but with a larger color gamut.

Thanks for the clarification. Like I said: GD only supports sRGB and no other color space afaik. You'll have to convert your images to sRGB on your client before uploading them then. Nothing to circumvent that, sorry.
Apart from that, I can not replicate your issues. Instead, I can confirm the observation by chzuqi: the thumb quality is not bad in itself. Attached are two more thumbnails with the same dimensions, one created using Downsizer 1.39 (pretty basic executable), one using Corel Photo Paint 11 (advanced image editor that is nearly as powerfull as Adobe Photoshop). Yes, the thumbnail is dull - you might want to apply sharpening to your thumbnails using Stramm modpack for cpg1.4.x or use the same option for the core in cpg1.5.x

[southbayphoto]

Ok, I appreciate the help from you both.  I'll just have to make sure I edit my photos in sRGB instead of any other color space.  This way the colors will be correct on the larger, original image, so when GD resizes for the thumbnail, it will look like the original.  :-)

Again, thank you both for looking into it.

Regards,
Mat

[Joachim Müller]

A final remark: attached is a thumb generated by cpg1.5.3 using thumb sharpening (amount 120%, radius 0.5, threshold 3).
There isn't much benefit for the image you have chosen as an example, simply because the details get blurred no matter what. Sharpening works great on portraits though.