album properties: can be viewed by, and visitors can upload to --

[brynn]

Hi Friends,
I'm still such a newb       I have CPG bridged to SMF 2.0.5 with Tiny Portal 1.107.  Here's my membergroup setup:

admin (default)
global mod (default)
mod (default)
developer (non-post count group upon request, or honorary, which for the forum inherits permissions from Full Member)
mentor  (non-post count group upon request, or honorary, which for the forum inherits permissions from Full Member)

Newbie
Sr. Newbie  (achieved at post count 5)
Jr. Member  (achieved at post count 30)
Full Member  (achieved at post count 100)
Hero Member  (achieved at post count 500)

I logged in with a non-admin account, to find out what regular members can see and do.  There's something in the User Gallery, Album Properties that I don't understand.  Yes, I've consulted the manual, but I can't seem to find the answer.

"Album can be viewed by" for a member in the Mentor group, offers these choices:

Everybody
Me only
Members of Newbie
Members of Mentor

So the reason I listed out my group structure, is because it appears that the available options for who can view their album, is somehow related to their membergroups.  The admin account offers ALL the groups (plus Everybody and Me).  I'm just not understanding the rationale behind this.

I'm guessing that Members of Newbie group and Mentor group are there, because this member is in the Mentor group.  And since they've only posted 1 message, they're also in the Newbie group.  But I don't understand why a member can only allow other members to see their album who are in their same groups (or Everybody or Me only).  What if for example, this member only wanted admins to be able to see their album? 

I'm actually not sure why someone would only want members of a certain group to be able to see their images, in the first place.  But I guess it's not entirely beyond reason.  But even within the realm of reason, why are the choices limited only to the groups that member is in?  Why not all offer all groups as options?
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And then my 2nd question.  When I'm logged in with a user in the Mentor group, who does have permission to upload to both public and their own user galleries -- the "Visitors can upload files" option is missing entirely.  Why?

I did read in the manual where "visitors" can only be allowed to upload, if they already have permissions to upload.  And even though the Newbie group CAN upload to both kinds of galleries, their uploads require approval.  Could that be preventing the option from appearing?  But I haven't seen anything about only members in the same group can upload to someone else's gallery.  I'm just trying to brainstorm why this option is missing entirely for the Mentor group member's Album Properties?

Would anyone be so kind as to explain these 2 things to me, and why they're happening.  It doesn't have to be any long or detailed explanation.  Just the general idea would be all I need.  Like perhaps it's part of a new feature that's not finished being developed yet, or something like that?  Or leftover fragments of an old feature that's being abandoned?

Thank you very much   

[lurkalot]

brynn, can you narrow down your two questions a bit, so I can understand the problems.  Note, after you change any SMF permissions you must re-visit the Coppermine Groups page to make them take.  I'm assuming you've done this?

I'm currently logged in on there, as I still have an account from when you were seeking Tinyportal support. 

[brynn]

Yeah, I never deleted your account.  I thought there was a pretty good chance I might need your help again someday.  Although I was surprised to find you as an admin here (pleasantly surprised, of course)    I have not made any changes in SMF permissions since I've installed CPG.  I'll try and make the questions more clear.

I'm logged in with a user account who is in the IC Mentor group (forester).

forester's album properties
"Permissions for this album" section
Option:  "Album can be viewed by"
Answer field is a dropdown menu, and choices are
-Everybody
-Me only
-members in Mentor group
-members in Newbie group

By comparison, when I'm logged in as admin, every member group available are offered as choices (plus everybody and me only).

The question is why choices are limited by member group for the field "Albums can be viewed by".

2nd question

Still logged in as forester
Still in forester's album properties
Still in "Permissions for the album" section
The option "Visitors can upload files" is missing entirely.  The question is why is it missing.

Note for both questions.  There is no specific task that I'm trying accomplish.  I'm writing a little guide for my members, for how to use the gallery, and it helps if I understand in the first place, lol 

Better understanding?  I can put you in the IC Mentor group, if you need to see it yourself.  Lmk 

[brynn]

Aaarg, can't edit 

When I said
"Better understanding?  I can put you in the IC Mentor group, if you need to see it yourself.  Lmk  "

I meant to say
"Does that give you a better understanding?  I can put you in the IC Mentor group, if you need to see it yourself.  Lmk  "

[brynn]

Oohhh, I think I understand!!  It wouldn't make any sense to have an album viewable by a group that the member isn't in.  It seems like the whole purpose of this setting, is so that you can have an album which only a certain group or groups can have access to.  I wonder if it really isn't meant for user gallery albums at all, but for other category of albums.  And only the admin can create other category and albums, right?

I was thinking about it from the perspective of the user who is setting up their user gallery album(s).  I couldn't figure out why a user would want to restrict who views their album.  And even if they did, why are their choices restricted to their own group.  The reason I thought that, was because most users will not have any control over groups.  Whatever group they're in, they really have no control over who else is in that group.  That's why it doesn't make sense (to me) that they would want to limit who views their album, to their group, because they have no control over who's in their group.

So if I finally have the right idea, I would suggest that group options be either missing, or grayed out for the user gallery category/albums.
________________

And I think the 2nd question is similar.  The manual says that only people in the allowed group (i.e. visitors) can upload.  But if this is a user gallery/album, the user really has no control over who is in a group.  So why would they limit viewing and uploading to a group they have no control over.

I don't know why "Visitors can upload to" is missing, while the others are still available.  But I'm really starting to think that these settings have no place in the user gallery/albums.  Comments and Ratings work the same way.  If the user chose their group, for who can view, let's say Newbie, then only other newbies would be able upload, rate and/or comment.

I can see where these settings could be useful for custom categories/albums that the admin might set up.   Then the admin can set up the special group, and all those settings make sense.  But for the user gallery/albums, it seems really moot to me.

So in the little guide I'm writing for my members, I think I'll suggest either Everybody or Me Only, and to ignore the groups.  Unless someone here can explain some reason otherwise.

[Αndré]

A short look at the code told me, that it seems to be intended that a non-admin cannot choose if visitors are allowed to upload files to that albums and he can only select the groups he belongs to. I cannot tell you the intention, as I assume that's part of the code since a very early version of Coppermine.

[brynn]

Sorry it took me so long to reply.  I got caught up in other issues with my gallery.

...it seems to be intended that a non-admin cannot choose if visitors are allowed to upload files....

When I log on as a non-admin, my album properties does offer "Album can be viewed by".  It does not offer "Visitors can upload".

But, no worries.  I don't think it will cause any problems.  I just wanted to understand it better.

Thank you very much, Andre